November 30, 2022

The Vacation Effect for Entrepreneurs: Denise M. Gosnell

If you’re an entrepreneur, your business should be freeing you, not trapping you. All too often, business owners end up stuck, feeling like the only way to grow is to work harder and harder. My next guest is a business strategist and lifestyle designer showing busy entrepreneurs how to create the free time that they create, while growing the business that they love.

Welcome back to the Author Hour Podcast. I’m your host, Hussein Al-Baiaty, and my next guest is Denise Gosnell, who’s here to talk with us about her new book, The Vacation Effect. Let’s dive in.

All right, everyone, you’re all in for a treat today. I’m really excited to have my friend Denise Gosnell with us today. She’s going to be telling us all about her new book, The Vacation Effect for Entrepreneurs. I’m really excited about this because the title kind of caught me off guard. Because when you think of entrepreneurs, you don’t necessarily think about vacation. At least being an entrepreneur, that was something I really had to grow and learn. But thank you so much for joining me today, Denise. I’m really grateful. I think our stories today are going to resonate with a lot of our listeners. But yeah, thanks for your time today. Thanks for coming on the show.

Denise Gosnell: Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Hussein. I’m excited for us to dive in and chat.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah. So, I want to tell our audience a little bit, just a little bit about your personal background, sort of who you are, where you grew up, and how did you get into this world of entrepreneurship?

Denise Gosnell: Yeah, so I come from a family of entrepreneurs. I grew up in Indiana, actually born in Arkansas, and my family moved to Indiana when I was seven years old, a small little community called Orestes, Indiana, part of the Alexandria School System, which is also a small school system. So, imagine growing up in this tiny little town that’s part of a bigger school system, which is still a small school system. It was like this beaver, cleaver world of you know, 20 or 30, 40 homes in the community, maybe there’s 100. But there’s not very many, it’s only like a population of 200 or 300 in the community. It was the kind of community where you could leave during the day, go anywhere in the little town and be home before dark. It’s before Internet, before telephones.

But in that community, I was a poor kid. There’s nothing wrong with being the family not having substantial means. And my parents were hard working. My dad was a scrap dealer. And I was taught to work hard for what you want in life. And when I was teased as a child for not having the nicest clothes and the things that I wanted in life, it made me very determined to better myself, and I remember as a kid, wanting to work hard to be successful, so no one would ever tease me again. I mean, I had a good life. My parents were great and everything like that. But kids are cruel when you have the haves and the have nots, right? So, a lot of that, I look back, we’re remodeling my childhood home right now in Orestes and we’re almost done. And I’m like, in awe of what I learned as a child and what I would go back and tell that version of myself I’ve been thinking a lot about that this week, as I’ve been going through my remodeled home, my remodeled childhood home, I mean.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Wow, that’s so powerful. I love that so much because it ties into a deeper human essence, right? Like trust me, I know all about the teasing. I grew up an Arab kid in America. You know what I mean?

Denise Gosnell: Oh, yeah.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: It was just a lot of those stories, though, my parents did their best, especially by, different culture, different language, different everything. But it was that fine tuning, the relearning, the understanding of what’s possible for me, the opportunities that lie ahead, and how much that I tried to use that to drown out the BS that was happening in the moment. And I think things like, and I’m sure you can relate to this. Things that my father taught me, my mother were just like, “Everything’s temporary. Don’t dwell on this time. Everything moves along, and you’ll get better. Your language will get better.” And that was always so helpful in such a good reminder. Were those—did you have any of those kinds of things that you got from your mom and dad, perhaps, or uncles or aunts that supported you in some sort of way that kind of just reminded you that, “Hey, these things are—this is our life. And you’re right, you can work hard, you can achieve, do things. But these are subtle things that you got to know as a young person to go into that world.”

Denise Gosnell: Yeah, it’s so interesting, because as I was thinking about that, this week, and with the book and everything, the release. A lot of that’s been on my mind. And one of the things that my dad passed away three or four years ago, and—

Hussein Al-Baiaty: I’m sorry.

Denise Gosnell: One of the things he used to always talk about is that nothing is more important in life than family. And so, that’s one principle that I always learned from him but because I was caught in that cycle of wanting to make money, so no one could ever tease me again. I forgot that for a while. And part of my story we’re going to talk about today and part of the book and what it covers is how I found myself and what I did about it.

So, yeah, it’s like, yeah, he taught me, but just because he taught it to me, it doesn’t mean I didn’t ignore it when I was caught in that addictive cycle of working all the time. The other thing he taught me was that you’re only one good idea away from turning things around. Anytime you’re having a bad day, if you don’t have any money in your bank account, or you’re having a bad day, like, all you have to do is just think outside the box and come up with a good idea that others will benefit from and tomorrow, you can have money in your bank account. I watched my dad do that in the scrap business. He’d go to auctions. He would, he was so ingenious, like the way he could come up with things and put you—he’d find something other people thought was junk and turn it into something valuable that somebody else thought was a treasure. And I watched him do that hundreds of times. I’m just like, “Wow, we could have no money in our bank account one day, and then tomorrow, he could make $10,000 by finding this junk thing that somebody else wanted, because it was a collectible or whatever.” So, that was just like—

Hussein Al-Baiaty: That’s very powerful.

Denise Gosnell: Never giving up on the fact that no matter how stressed you are, as a business owner or human being that if you just give yourself the space to think outside the box, you can solve so much with your own thought if you give yourself the space instead of being caught in the hustle machine that I had become addicted to, because I just wanted to be so successful that I got caught in the American grind machine, as I call it.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah, man, isn’t that the truest thing? I totally can relate as far as like getting in the grind machine. So, I want to go there. I want to talk about your book a little bit, because the introduction was so powerful. You really dropped me in that scene in front of your house. I felt like I was there, honestly. I couldn’t stop reading. Your entire house, your dream home, the thing that you’ve worked really hard for is literally being burned down to the ground. And you got the firemen over here like, “What do you want me to try to rescue?” And these thoughts are going through your head, and I can’t imagine, on top of not only these thoughts of what seemed like utter calm, but also right next to that, were all these things that you valued, but that weren’t necessarily valuable. Can you talk to us a little bit about that scene? What was going on? And what happened from there that made you kind of create the shift in your life?

Photo by Pixabay from Pexels: https://www.pexels.com/photo/burning-burning-down-chain-reaction-fire-358511/

The House Fire

Denise Gosnell: Yeah, absolutely. And so, it’s interesting that you mentioned that because it’s like, if we think back to what I was talking about from when I was like 7 to 17, in that house in Orestes, Indiana that we’re finishing the remodel on, but that’s where I was teased for being poor. So, all I ever wanted was to become a millionaire, where no one could ever tease me again. So, there I am in the multimillion-dollar house, in the suburbs of Indianapolis, Indiana, that were struck by lightning and the house catches fire.

Right before that, I had arrived, right? I had reached that status, the multimillion-dollar home, the Best of Show, the stuff that I thought mattered, that all I wanted as a kid was to be there, so no one could ever tease me again. And then fast forward to that June 20, 2011 moment that you’re talking about, when the fireman knocks on the door, and asks me what he wants us to retrieve before the house is destroyed by fire and water. A lot of it was destroyed by water, even the parts of the fire didn’t get. So anyway, it’s just like everything was ruined.

But in that moment, how I answered him was just so insightful and such a pit in my stomach, because it made me realize, just flashing back to my childhood and all the way to that moment, it’s like, wow, what I asked him to retrieve, were all sentimental things, the things that really matter in life. Like my dad always said that all that matters in life is your family and your joy and not like how much money you have in your bank account. You share what you have with others and not that you can’t have a good life and there’s anything wrong with making money, because there’s not. But when it becomes the addictive cycle in and of itself, at the expense of your joy and your family, that’s when it’s a problem.

And that in that moment, as I watched them put the fire out for over eight hours, while it was raining too, which is ironic that it took them eight hours to put out fire even when it was raining, because it got into the walls and everything, that I’m just replaying how I had answered them. What I wanted them to retrieve like, it was my grandmother’s blanket, it was my daughter’s stuffed animal bunny. She was five at the time. It was my wedding photos that I didn’t have digital copies of. And it’s like, wow, it’s not the artwork I got in Italy. It’s not the jewelry in the jewelry boxes. It’s not any of that stuff, because you can replace stuff, any time, any day. It wasn’t the cars and the luxury cars in the garage. It was none of that. It was the sentimental things that represented the people in my life that really mattered to me.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah, God, that’s so powerful. I just resonated with that so deeply as I was kind of going through that in my own head and my own experiences of what it must have felt like for my mom and dad to give up their home in Iraq and go into this refugee camp. So, for me, it was like, yeah, but like, it doesn’t matter if you live in America or living—you’re right, the sentiment—the smallest of things, the things that you get to just carry in a backpack, you realize, like, my dad, very similar to your dad, the most important thing to him was our family. And at that point, that’s the most valuable stuff, your kids. You grab your kids and you run.

I totally resonate with that so deep, and it’s such a human innate thing, that we all think that the things that we buy, the things that we surround ourselves with. Yes, they’re beautiful, they’re great to look at, and you’re supporting that artists or that person, or that jewelry maker, these are all beautiful things. However, at the end of the day, like you said, most things are replaceable. But that photo of your grandma, or whatever it is, it’s not – or that blanket that is super special to you, and it cozy’s you up beyond just the warmth. There’s a story and history to it. And it’s passed down by someone who’s intentional and meaningful to you. That’s the meaningful stuff, because it’s tied to deep experiential memories. But this all kind of came together in a really wild incident, of course, right? So, how did that incident then helped shape shift what was to happen next, because here you are, you’re working really hard, you’re not really home as often as you’d like to be. So, you knew you had to make a shift. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Denise Gosnell: The day of the fire, or right before. I had three companies that I was running. I had a law firm, a real estate company, my husband, and I’ve had for almost 30 years, and then also a coaching company. And so, I’m running—it was taking me, six, seven days a week, 80 hours a week to run those three companies to pay for that fancy house that caught fire, right? I was gone all the time, either mentally or physically. I was more mentally gone than I was physically gone. Although, I did travel from time to time, but not a lot, but I just was always working. My mind was always at the computer, working away on the different projects that people were paying me a lot of money for and it was just all consuming. And all I could see was that outcome of continuing to make that money to propagate or to create that good life for my family, right?

In my mind. That’s what we tell ourselves. Like, we’re building this good life for our family. We’re working ourselves to the bone because we want to provide a good life for our family. But guess what, my family would rather have less money and my attention than they would all the stuff that we didn’t even go after when it was burning. But it’s a tough thing to reconcile, right? Because you want nice things for your family, you want to be able to take vacations, you want to be able to have decent clothes and have a good life. But there comes a point where it’s like how much is enough?

So, I really had to battle with that. How can I have a good life for my family, but never have to sacrifice the quality of life with my family again? I always wanted to be present for the moments that really mattered. And so that day after my fire, I made it my mission to figure out how to solve that seeming conundrum, how to have both growth in your revenue, in your business, and plenty of free time. Both always seemed like an either or. And to be honest, for the first few years after my fire, I struggled with that. I would work more, I’d make more money, I’d work less than I’d make less money. And I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, there’s got to be a better way. I want both. I want to have a great life for my family, but also still make a good living.”

So, I didn’t care, like it didn’t have to be seven, eight figures anymore. I was working with it being less, because I realized how ridiculous that was. But I wanted to solve that problem, and what my book is about is literally the journey of what I went through to figure that out, and what actually ended up working for me that I wanted to hand everyone else on a silver platter where you didn’t have to struggle like I did for over 20 years and over a million dollars in my education to figure it out. And that’s literally the path and process I walk through in the book, what it was I did to now be able to work an average of three days per week, running those same three companies, still generating seven figures each year, still paying myself a nice salary, but always having time for what matters. And even if my revenue goes down, I’m okay with it. But it hasn’t, thankfully. I’ve still made a great living. But even if it does, the freedom that I’ve gained as a result, and the mindset shifts I’ve made and the peace that I’ve come to, is worth more than any amount of money I’ll ever make.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Wow. Yeah, that’s so powerful and what a shift. And of course, it takes time to reconcile, to really go through, get the work done on the internal and really start to make those changes that are necessary. You also talked about, I mean, I think this kind of aligns well with what we got to talk about next. Because in doing those changes, you got to do something that you talk about in your book, too. I know you say, quit lying to yourself and face your somedays and maybes. I really love that. That whole chapter was really powerful. But what do you mean by that?

I mean, I know for a fact, when I was younger, that I lied to myself, that I said a lot of someday one day, maybe, and I too, like I owned a print shop for about—from 2010 to about 2020. So, 10 years, and it consumed everything. It consumed every ounce of my life, and I was growing it. I had a lot of nose growing up. So, I had a chip on my shoulder, you know what I mean? And so, I was out in the world, just trying to do all the things. That took that literally, I mean, my health, everything was declining. And so, I had to make that shift and I’m glad I did.

Actually, that shift started right after my father died in 2016, when I knew I had to sell my business. But like you said, it takes time to make those changes, which I really appreciate. But I had to stop lying to myself. Honestly, I had to sit in front of the mirror, and cry, and just be like, “Dude, it literally felt like two bodies, just kind of—and the mirror was this tension.” I just look at myself. And I just knew I needed to make the changes. And so that, for me was like when I had to stop lying to myself and face who I wanted to become. Can you tell me a little bit about what that means for other people? What that means for entrepreneurs? What that means for the person that was going through what you’re going through?

Somedays and Maybes

Denise Gosnell: Yeah, absolutely. So, what you’re talking about is, what I refer to as the someday, maybes and facing those someday, maybe. Like you said, we all have those things we tell ourselves someday, maybe when I have more time, I’ll spend more time with my parents or my friends or my family or not volunteering at that nonprofit that I really would like to volunteer at. Or someday, when I have more money, I’ll travel the world more and I’ll do that thing that would bring me joy. It’s like the someday, maybes are all those things that we would like to do, because they would bring us joy. But we’re waiting until some criteria to have happen in order to give ourselves permission to actually do the thing and have joy.

What I realized in my journey after my fire is how messed up that is. Like, “Oh, let me get this straight. I’m literally telling myself all these things that someday, maybe I’ll do that will make me really happy, that would be really fun or joyful or fulfilling to do.” But I’m going to wait until that maybe criteria happens to then give myself permission to do things that would make me happy. So, I just made a decision to be like, “No, I’m going to start living my someday, maybes, or giving myself permission to let them go and being honest with it.” If it’s okay, I can give an example of what I mean by that.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah.

Denise Gosnell: I used to tell myself that someday, maybe I will learn to be a good cook. I cooked in high school and when I was in 4H, I learned to follow recipes and I was good at it. But I just didn’t like it. Like it’s just not something I’ve ever enjoyed. I’ve always been working so many hours. I liked having other people cook for me whether my husband would cook or we’d ordered carry out or Country Club, restaurant meals or whatever. I just didn’t like to cook. And so, I had it on my someday, maybe list, that someday, maybe I’ll learn to be a great cook.

And when I really was dealing with this idea of the someday, maybes and bringing them into the now, that was one of them I had to face. Like what you were talking about when you cried in the mirror and you had to face yourself. That wasn’t actually something I wanted to do. That was something that I put on myself because I thought I should because society thinks that the mother of the house should want to cook for her family.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: So powerful.

Denise Gosnell: I had to like face the fact, do I want to be a good cook? No, I actually don’t. If I’m honest with myself. I don’t like the shopping, the grocery shopping. I don’t like the cleanup of it. I don’t like the hassles of it all. It doesn’t bring me joy. The only time it brings me joy is doing it with my family over the holidays, because we’re baking cookies together and putting frosting on it. But it’s really not the cooking part. It’s the family time that I enjoy about it, not the cooking part of it.

So, I had to be like, “You know what, Denise, it’s okay, that you don’t like to cook and that you don’t want to become this gourmet cook as long as you provide.” I’d rather pay someone who they love doing that with love, passion and joy, and let them be the ones that cooks it for me, that cooks things for me. And there’s nothing wrong with that. That’s okay. But you know what, all those other someday, maybes, I kept telling myself someday, I’ll have a house in Sedona as a vacation home. Someday I’ll learn to play the piano again and refine my skills, all those things were just joy that I really did want to do that I was depriving myself of.

So, what did I do? I went and got out my piano books and I practice now and I really enjoy it. And then I bought a house, a second home, my husband and I, we bought a second home in Sedona that’s now a vacation home and I travel there usually one week a month, even during the pandemic I went there. It’s a great place to go to and I love hiking there and I love entertaining clients and friends there and showing them the magic of Sedona. That’s another example.

The bottom line is now, and I challenge everyone listening to this to be on the lookout for this. Anytime you start to tell yourself, someday when X happens, I’ll do Y. Someday, maybe when this thing and I have more time or have more money, I’ll do this thing that’ll bring me joy. I challenge all of you to think about what part of that can you do today? Because all this someday, maybe is, is future joy you’re depriving yourself of right now.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: So powerful.

Denise Gosnell: And even if you can’t take that trip around the world for 90 days, what could you do in a one-week version of it? There’s always some glimmer of it you could do right now to get that—why not bring the part of it you can into the now and live that joy now. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to wait until I’m too old, too out of shape, too sick, or don’t have any money, which, hopefully that’ll never happen to me. But none of us ever know. But so many people wait until “retirement” to do those someday, maybes that would bring them joy. And then when they get there, they have no money, they’re sick, they’re tired, or they don’t have the desire to do it anymore, and they literally live their life lacking in joy, or all the joy that could have had. To me, that’s not the way I want to live my life. That’s not what I mean by living the vacation of heck lifestyle.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Right. Sadly, sometimes it’s better, because we didn’t take advantage of that stuff at an earlier age, just so you’re sort of angry as well. So, I think that’s really powerful and I think you’re 100% right in the sense of like, how can I trickle my retirement or sprinkle my retirement throughout my life and the things that I want to do, instead of putting them off, figure out ways how I can embed them and incorporate them, more or less, integrate them into my day to day lifestyle. I love that so much, because that’s a huge shift in thinking. But then taking the actions necessary to really back up that thinking. And so, this kind of takes us to our next sort of phase, and you talk about this idea of growing by subtraction, which I love so much. Can you share a little bit about that methodology? I know you go into—in the book, it’s very extensive. But can you share a little bit about what that means to you and how we can apply a principle or two?

Denise’s Methodology

Denise Gosnell: Yeah, so the idea of growing by subtraction is where you grow by doing less, not more. And it sounds counterintuitive, but when you do less, but they’re the right things to do versus the wrong things to do, you can actually do a whole lot less and free up a lot of time for other things that really matter. And the best example I can think of to help illustrate this is when you’re about to go on vacation, most people can relate to the fact that when you’re about to go on vacation, you know how you get like it seems like a month’s worth of work done in the two days before you leave, right? Super productive, I call that, is when you’re just hyper-efficient. 

Well, what’s happening there is you are forcing yourself to focus on the critical few things that really matter, the things that have to get done, that only you can do, because you’re about to leave for your vacation, and then you’re delegating or you’re eliminating all the rest of the stuff that’s on your list that you probably should have delegated or eliminated to begin with, but the crunch mode of about to leave for vacation actually forces you to deal with it. And to do either do it, delegate it or delete it.

So, that’s really what I mean by growing by subtraction is where you grow by removing from your to-do list instead of adding to it. When you’re in that scenario, that’s actually that forced hyper-efficiency that you get right before vacation, when you get so much done. I call that forced hyper-efficiency. But that forced hyper-efficiency that you get before leaving on that vacation is where the first part of the name, the vacation effect comes from. It’s that hyper-productivity that the pressure of vacation puts on you to where you just become this amazing, super-productive machine. And then Hussein, what if you could make that same hyper-efficiency, a way of life every single week, so that you’d have plenty of space and time to bring those someday, maybes into the now, and to do the things that make you happy, even if it’s starting another company, as a busy entrepreneur. Or maybe you don’t want to have a three-day work week, on average, like I do. Maybe you want to have a couple days off each week to where you could start other companies or write that book you’ve always wanted to write or volunteer.

Not everybody has the same dream schedule. But wouldn’t it be nice to have the option? That’s what I’m always saying to my fellow business owner friends. Wouldn’t that have been great? Any time of your week as a business owner to just know that you’ve got a couple of days a week to just be and wake up with yourself and be like, “What do I want to work on today?” You don’t have 20 meetings and 50 interruptions and just to give yourself space. That’s really where the magic happens is when you give yourself space during the business week, not the weekends. To me, those are a given, like give yourself time on the weekends to be with friends and family. But there’s a lot of things on the weekends that I think are like filler, like you got laundry, you got errands and all that kind of stuff. To me the greatest sense of freedom that I feel in my life is when I have a business day with nothing scheduled. And I have two of those, every single week, in general, except if I have a special trip I’m traveling or whatever.

But imagine, I’ve got Tuesdays and Thursdays in general on my schedule, where all it says is Freedom Day. To me, it’s the greatest feeling of freedom to wake up and say, “What do I want to do today that’ll make me happy?” And that’s my goal with this book is like literally I walk through the process that that anyone can apply to—any business owner can apply to free up two business days per week, in their company, getting themselves out of the trenches for whatever makes them happy, even if they want to use it to start other companies or whatever they want it for. That’s what my process teaches them how to do and it is life-changing. I’ve been doing this for now for, I think, almost five years that I’ve had that three-day workweek and I’ve helped a few dozen other clients so far. The number is growing every single day, transform their lives as well.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah, it’s amazing. I love this story arc, where you were that person that you’re trying to help now and having gone through your own transformation, having figured things out, sort of as you’ve gone through the pain, and transform yourself through that, which gives you sort of this key, this well-fashioned key that’s very unique to how you live your lifestyle. But you took components of that key and said, “Here’s how I do this thing, perhaps if you apply these ideologies, these methods to your day, to your week, to your month, you can start to restructure and reconfigure how you do what you love doing.” I love that so much. I really appreciate your thought process behind this.

Denise, I know you’re very busy person in an entrepreneurship world, and I know you run about three businesses and you’re doing these things, but yet, I still find your voice very calm, and very collected, and that’s just the—I love that because it’s a sign that you’re actually living what you’re preaching, and that is very crucial to this line of work. I’m teaching you from what I’m living, as opposed to what I want to live. That’s defining for me.

Denise, first of all, I want to say, congratulations. Writing a book is a huge feat. And it seems like this is something that has been brewing with you for some time, and now is the right time to sort of deliver this wisdom. But what’s one thing out of this entire book, if somebody were to walk away from it, having learned one thing, what would you hope that one thing would be?

Denise Gosnell: The one thing is, and I tell the story about it in the book, so I won’t ruin it. But it’s how I received that message about, all you have to do is decide and make today what you want tomorrow to be. That’s the mantra that I live my life by, and it’s the idea of, instead of waiting for someday, maybe to have that life you’ve always wanted, if you abstract money, what most people really want is peace, joy, happiness and security. You want to know that you’ve got your mortgage payment covered, right? That you got food in your belly, and you want to know that you’ve got to happiness and joy and that you’re doing fulfilling work. So, all you have to do is make today what you want tomorrow to be, and forgetting about like that revenue goal you haven’t hit yet as a business owner, or the income you haven’t made yet. You’re okay, right now, in most cases. Almost everyone listening to this, like you’re comfortable.

Studies have shown that once you make a certain amount of money, it’s like $80,000 or $90,000, or whatever it is per year that your happiness level does not increase with your income. Your stress and other things can increase. So, I challenge everyone listening to this. It’s like, what is stopping you from making today what you want tomorrow to be and like showing up as that happy content, fulfilled version of yourself? And yeah, of course, you can still have revenue goals. Of course, you can want to strive to do great things in the world. I’m not talking about that. But you have to start with showing up as a happy person, and living in the now while you also work towards the future. And it’s time to claim that freedom today, and live a meaningful, purposeful life.

And literally, my process, the three phases I take you through in the book, teaches you how to get clear on where you are, and where you want to go, how to do a little experiment to help you optimize where you’re at, and then how to identify what you need to optimize, and then showing you how to optimize it, so you can free up those two business days for whatever you want to spend that time on. But more importantly, how to give yourself space so that you can bring those someday, maybes into now, so you can live from a place of calm. So, even if your house is on fire or you lose everything that you own, you’re just grateful to be alive and know that you’re going to learn great things from the experience like I did, and you’re going to use it to help others and you’re going to use it to be a better person. That’s the greatest takeaway I could give people is make today, what you want tomorrow to be.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: So powerful and so well said.

Denise Gosnell: Thank you.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: You’re so passionate, and I just appreciate that energy and enthusiasm. Denise, thank you so much for sharing your stories and your experiences with us today. The book is called The Vacation Effect for Entrepreneurs: Grow Your Business Even Faster by Working Less and Having More Fun. Besides checking out the book, where can people find you Denise?

Denise Gosnell: Yeah, so they can find out more about me on my website at denisegosnell.com. Also, you can find me on LinkedIn and Facebook. But my website, denisegosnell.com, has links to all those social media pages. And just to clarify, the book is called, The Vacation Effect: Grow Your Business Even Faster by Working Less and Having More Fun not “growing”, just in case anybody types that in and doesn’t find it.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: My apologies.

Denise Gosnell: No worries at all. I just want to make sure somebody didn’t find it because of the grow versus growing.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Thank you for catching that.

Denise Gosnell: No worries at all. You’ve been amazing, and I so, so appreciate our chat today. It’s been wonderful.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Likewise, this is amazing time that I will cherish for a very long time. You really inspired me today. Thank you for coming on the show.

Denise Gosnell: Thank you so much for having me, Hussein. It’s been a joy.