November 16, 2022

Mastering Microdosing: Paul F. Austin

From biohackers, and artists, to suburban moms, and entrepreneurs, everyone can benefit from microdosing; a practice quickly entering mainstream conversation. But what is micro-dosing, and how is it a part of today’s health and wellness regimen? My next guest, Paul Austin is one of the most prominent voices in the world of psychedelics. As the founder of Third Wave, he has educated millions on the importance of safe and effective psychedelic experiences.

Welcome back to the Author Hour Podcast. I’m your host, Hussein Al-Baiaty, and I’m joined by author, Paul Austin to celebrate and talk about his new book, Mastering Microdosing. Let’s jump into it.

All right, everyone. I’m here with my man, Paul Austin, who has just come off a long journey from helping individuals in his space. I’m super excited, because this episode, we’re going to be talking about Mastering Microdosing, the new book that Paul Austin has put out into the world, to help us all feel a little bit better in some way, shape, or form. Paul, thanks for joining today.

Paul Austin: Thanks for having me on. I can’t wait to—this is the first proper podcast interview I’ve done specifically about the book. It’s been such an honor to work with Scribe these last months in terms of getting this up and going. I’m stoked to jam with you today.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah, man. Thank you for coming on and your time. I know it’s a privilege. Let’s start by giving our listeners an idea of sort of who you are, your personal background, and how you came to find psychedelics.

A Psychedelic Introduction

Paul Austin: Yeah. This story starts at the age of 16. When I was 16, I had my first foray into the world of—we could say illicit substances, in particular, cannabis. Had a few really meaningful and also profoundly hilarious experiences with cannabis at the age of 16. Really, that led me to start questioning sort of our understanding of, “illegal drugs” if you will. There was an event that happened when I was 16, where a few months after I started smoking weed, I’d done it maybe three times. My parents found out about it. I grew up in a pretty traditional home in the Midwest. In Michigan, illegal drugs are totally not kosher whatsoever. So they were really, let’s say, uninformed, or not aware of the kind of truth about some of these medicines. My dad sat me down, my mom was there. My dad basically said it was the most disappointed that he had been since his brother had passed away in a car accident. That just sort of like hit me like So, a pound of bricks. Where I was just like, “This does not feel true. What is going on? I’m just exploring the substance that’s really fun and interesting and light.” 

That sort of led to a bit of a divide, where I started to realize that I was just very different from the community and culture that I had been raised within. A few years after that first experience, I was 19, sophomore in college, and tried LSD for the first time, 200 micrograms. Not like a super, super high dose, but definitely enough of a dose to have a “trip,” a psychedelic experience. And was outdoors, it was like an early May day, beautiful West Michigan, at the beach, beautiful sand dunes, Lake Michigan, the whole nine yards, woods. I just had this sort of shift in awareness around like, not only am I very much sort of a black sheep within the culture and community that I was raised within. But also like, these medicines are profoundly insightful and helpful in terms of me coming to terms with who I am, like truly the true sort of authentic expression of who I am. 

As part of that, what I never had realized before I worked with psychedelics was this sense of interbeing, that I was intimately connected to—this is so hippy sounding, but the trees, and the woods, and the forests, and everything that I come from in terms of my lineage, and my ancestry, there’s a relationship there. So it really, working with higher doses of psychedelics really brought me into deep relationship for the first time. Just to sort of land this story in terms of how this led to microdosing. A few years later, I was traveling, living in Thailand, doing the digital nomad lifestyle, heard about microdosing through a pretty popular podcast, and started to try it myself. Because I remember back to those early high-dose experiences, how I had this afterglow for like a week or two weeks after. I started to work with microdosing, really helped me to overcome social anxiety, to stop drinking alcohol, l helped me to enter flow states pretty easily. 

I looked back at the science that we had had on psychedelics, this was in 2015. I started to explore, why are these so stigmatized, why are these so illegal. It made no sense whatsoever. So essentially, I made it my mission to create an educational platform that could really enable people to make informed decisions about whether or not they want to work with psychedelics. And if they wanted to work with psychedelics, whether microdosing or even higher doses, how to do it safely, how to do it effectively, and how to do it with intention. That’s led to this, anyone listening to this podcast has probably read a media article about psychedelics, or seeing a new research trial that comes out, or seeing a lot of the companies. So this is really starting to hit the big time. To me, it feels, I mean, A, just gratifying in a way, but also sort of like a ray of optimism in a world that’s seeming to fall apart. I think psychedelics offer this hope for a lot of people that they can actually be healed, and there’s actually—there’s a tool that’s been highly stigmatized, and highly illegal for a long time that, in fact, could be incredibly beneficial if used within the right context.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah, man. That is so powerful. I appreciate that you started us off so young with your experiments, just trying out weed, and seeing what that’s like. I think for me, growing up Muslim, in an Arab household, and everything was off the table. But it wasn’t until like late college, really, that I smoked for like the first time and smoke weed. It was just, I didn’t really think too much of it, except for I was just, I felt a little lighter. I just felt like my urge to, I guess, “succeed” or like the thing that your refugee parents put on you. You got to succeed, you got a got job, you got to go through college, that pressure, man. In a way, I just felt a little lighter for those, I guess, you’d say few hours. I consumed it for a few months later on or whatever, but it wasn’t like heavy or anything.

I’m kind of glad I did that later in life because when I was younger, I just didn’t really care for it. I was artistic, I was already driven, I didn’t really have too much pressure at a very young age. I think it came on a little later. With your book and your work now, I mean, we were just talking about it before we hit record. Who do you seek to help? I mean, because I know, when I started learning about microdosing, and things like that, so many people were like, “Man, you’re creative. This will help you just go there.” I didn’t really know what that meant, but I felt like I referred back to that experience like, maybe it’s just like smoking weed to kind of just take the edge off a little bit, where you could just allow yourself to go. Tell me about who do you seek to help with your work, and why did you write this book specifically.

The Benefits of Microdosing

Paul Austin: That’s a great question. I think the truest answer is, I’m really seeking to help anyone who is seeking to learn and grow, take agency, and sovereignty over their existence, and use tools, whether it’s psychedelics, or exercise, or diet, or breath work, or cold plunges, or whatever it is to really sort of take back control of their life, so to say. We not only have a book; we also have a course. There are people from all walks of life, who I think can benefit from microdosing. Whether it’s stay-at-home moms, or whether it’s college students who are addicted to Adderall, or whether it’s people who maybe have been on SSRIs, or other pharmaceutical medications for a long time. I think a lot of people across the spectrum can benefit from it. In a way, that was part of the impetus behind writing the book.

Let’s create a book that regardless of where someone is at in their life, if they share a desire to really take agency over their existence, then they’re going to get something from this. I think more particularly though, because of my background, I’ve never been clinically depressed, or been on any sort of psychiatric medication ever. I’m really grateful for that. Now, that doesn’t mean I haven’t struggled with depression and anxiety, I certainly have, but I’ve never necessarily use psychiatric medications to help with that. I’ve always really come at psychedelics more from a performance, wellness, leadership, kind of personal development angle. I think in particular, those who will resonate with this book the most are those who are really looking at, not necessarily how do I get back to baseline. But instead, how do I go from baseline to full expression, to self-actualization, to really feeling up, like I’m showing up in life and being a total and complete badass, looking at baseline to the next level, if you will.

A lot of the people that I work with one-on-one, or a lot of the people who are enrolling in our training programs to become a coach or a practitioner, they’re really interested in the overlap of psychedelics and executive leadership, or psychedelics and peak performance, or psychedelics and physiological wellbeing. The way that I view microdosing is less so as a pill, and more so as a supplement. I think it’s important to land that because we often perceive pills as something that we’re addicted to. We perceive them as something that we have to take. We perceive them as something that maybe might be prescribed by a doctor. With a supplement, it’s something that helps us to—fish oil, or prebiotic, probiotic, or vitamin D, or whatever it is, it’s something we’re choosing to take. It’s often something that’s non-addictive. If we miss a day or two, it’s not a big deal. There is somewhat of an intuition around it. 

In other words, with microdosing in particular, a lot of people start by doing it twice a week for a month. That’s what we call like an initial microdosing protocol. But after you get a feel for the medicine, and how you calibrate for it, it could be that you decide. Like now, I do it once a month, or maybe I do it when I have a public talk that I’m giving, or maybe I do if I’m going out with friend and I want to just be a little bit more social, open, and playful. There’s more of an intuitive sense around like, this is why microdosing might be beneficial, or this is how it could help me.

Just to land that for the audience, the way that I frame that is cultivating what we call the skill of psychedelics. There’s a capacity, there’s an ability not to be prescriptive about how we work with these, but really to have sort of an ability to deeply listen to what it is that our body needs, or what it is that our mind needs, or what it is that we just need on that day, or that month, or that year, whatever it is. Then to work with psychedelics more from an intuitive perspective, rather than a strict regimented “I have to do this at this time, on this day. If I don’t do it, my life is going to fall apart.” We really want people to feel like, yeah, microdosing is helpful. It can help to amplify, it can help to be an ally, but you’re not necessarily dependent on it. Because I think once we slip into psychological dependency, on an external substance, we’re giving up our power to something outside of ourselves, and we forget that everything that we need is actually inside us already, and we’re just using microdosing, and using psychedelics to remember that, so to say, to open up that awareness once again.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah. That’s such a powerful perspective. I’m so glad you brought that to our attention, because microdosing is an experience in itself. However, you are basically, you’re sort of powering up if you will. Like you said, you’re kind of opening up a window, a door, if you will, to what’s already inside of you, and allowing that. Because let’s be honest, there’s like fears for creative purposes, like there’s so many—what I feel great artists talk about resistance. There are so many, I guess, unexplainable or forces, invisible or not, conceived by yourself or otherwise. There are these forces that are kind of, in a way pushing up against you, and create resistance to what you want to do. Whether you want to go enjoy some time with friends, or go public speak, whatever it is. I think, for me, it is allowed for me is to not overthink it. It’s just to remember that I am confident, I do have the skills, I do have—I am enough. What I’m bringing to the table is plenty as opposed to questioning your own existence, if you will, or your own abilities.

Paul Austin: Or self-worth even.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Or self-worth, yes. Thank you. I haven’t been on this sort of protocol for the past six months or so. I’ve found myself very much just literally saying like, “Oh, yeah. That’s enough,” just in my mind. Because I feel like for a long time, what wasn’t enough was to impress my father. I love my mom and dad, like I love my father, my siblings. I want to be able to—they protected me, they cared for me in a very traumatizing time in my life in that refugee camp. In my mind, I want to be like more like, I’m an awesome kid who grew up, and everything they sacrificed everything for is worth it because I grew up to be a healthy person that is giving back and all these things. But obviously, these are pressures that I’ve manifested in my mind. It’s a way to protect my ego or whatever is inside.

What it’s allowed me to do personally, is just feel like whatever I’m bringing to the table is plenty. Man, that reassurance, that door, that window that’s opened up for me has been so helpful. There’s been times where I just sit there, and I’m like, I’ll just kind of tear up because I’m so joyful, like, “Oh, everything’s good.” You know what I mean? I just appreciate that aspect of what you bring to the table as well. Can you walk us through sort of the process of how does one access these doses? How does one prepare for it. I know, you talk a little bit about, and this is really important. Setting the intention before dosing. I think there’s something really like beautiful about that. It’s more like coaching your subconscious if you will. But I don’t know, you probably say it better. But can you walk us through that process a little bit.

Photo by Pixabay from Pexels:

Access to Microdosing

Paul Austin: Yeah. How do we go from, “okay, we’ve heard about microdosing,” or maybe “a friend has told us about microdosing” to, “how do I actually do this?” Of course, the biggest block here is the fact that most psychedelic substances in most places are still illegal. That’s changing rapidly. Oregon has legalized psilocybin that’s going into effect next year. There are a few jurisdictions like the Netherlands and Jamaica that have legal psilocybin. But by and large, psychedelic substances are illegal, which is unfortunate because of, for so many reasons, which I won’t get into too much now. When it comes to accessing medicine, just as a starting point, there’s a few different ways. I think, first and foremost, an invitation when we start to work with psychedelic medicines. As I mentioned before, my big awareness or insight was, how relational I am, how relational we are as humans, and how so much of our suffering is tied to a lack of community or a lack of human connection.

Oftentimes, when we’re starting to work with psychedelic medicine, there’s an invitation to start to be in community, and start to meet others. Oftentimes, what I tell folks who are starting to get into this space is like, I live in San Diego, whether you’re in Austin, or New York, or Miami, or Portland, or there’s so many even smaller cities these days. I’m originally from Grand Rapids, Michigan, a town of 100,000 people. They also have a psychedelic society. So there are more and more, let’s say, public events, where you can go, and you can meet others, and get to know others and start to build community from that. Because what matters most when we’re working with medicine is that we have, let’s say, a trustworthy access point to that. 

I think beyond that, then it’s part of what we do at Third Wave is we sell a mushroom grow kit. With that mushroom grow kit, it makes it as easy as possible for people to actually grow their own medicine. I think the step beyond becoming involved in community and starting to meet others is if you want to take that ownership fully into your own hands. Mushrooms are reasonably easy to grow. We have a kit that we can basically sell in any state. It doesn’t come with spores, because that would be illegal, but you can easily find spores elsewhere. Then you can simply grow your own medicine. It takes four to six weeks. Once that happens, you’ll have enough medicine for a year of microdosing. If not, longer.

I usually will point people in those two directions of what is most important within this is, if someone is working with psilocybin mushrooms, that’s pretty easy and straightforward in terms of, whether it’s a chocolate, or whether you grow them yourself, or whatever it is. The chances of those being psilocybin mushrooms are really quite high. But if someone wants to work with let’s say, LSD, which comes in liquid or crystal form, it’s also important that they test their medicine just to make sure that it is in fact LSD before they start to ingest it. Because of prohibition and how illegal these things are, it’s good to validate that. You can find drug testing kits on Third Wave as well, which we can link to.

So once we have the medicine, then the fun part starts, where it really is, like you said. The way that I break it down is three-step series; preparation, experience, integration. Preparation is how are we preparing for the experience? What intention are we setting? How long are we microdosing for? Especially for those who are beginners are newbies in this space, really committing to a microdosing protocol where you’re doing it two to three times a week for at least a month is critical. The comparison that I make is to meditation. For anyone who’s listening to this who meditates, you know that you don’t just sit down on a cushion for 15-minute one day, and all of a sudden your life has transformed. You have to commit and show up for at least 30 days straight to start to really reap the tangible benefits of being less reactive, and being more present, and having a better mood, and things like that.

Microdosing is the same, because microdosing is [inaudible 0:19:57.6], it’s a very low dose of a psychedelic. What is not necessarily going to happen is, you’re going to take it on day one, and all of a sudden, holy shit, your life has changed. That can happen with higher doses, but that’s a whole different framework that requires a lot more preparation, and potentially a guide, or a sitter, or stuff like that. What we love about microdosing, and I’m sure you would agree with this is, it’s low risk, can do it at home often by yourself. By starting low and going slow, you can sort of start to feel into how the medicine affects you and what your sort of upper limits are when it comes to microdosing

I would say, first and foremost, preparation. Secondarily, for the experience, commit to a minimum of a month two to three times a week. Then integration. Integration is, okay, you’ve now gone through potentially what could be a very intense experience. Microdosing two or three times a week for a month or two months. Now, take a couple of weeks once you finish that to reflect, to journal, to ask how has this impacted me, how have things been changing, how am I making better decisions. There needs to be a period of reflection, so that way, the insights, and the awareness that comes up through that microdosing experience, you can actually chew on. Then, you have sort of, once you have that first experience, then you’re going to know, “Okay. I might do this again and I might change this, or change this, or change this or do this differently.”

The last thing to note on sort of working with microdosing that is important to emphasize is that microdosing is not a magic pill. What I mean by that is, so often, especially in Western culture, we’re conditioned to believe that taking a pill is going to fix something. If we just take SSRI, or if we just take whatever, it’s a silver bullet, it’s going to address the thing that we need to address. What we’re learning and what we’ve known is that, that’s not necessarily the case, especially when it comes to microdosing or even higher doses of psychedelics, that you still have to put in the work, that you still have to be committed to change, that you still have to be willing to let old patterns, old behaviors, old habits die. That microdosing, and even as you start to get into mini dosing in these higher doses, these are catalysts, they’re openers. They help with neuroplasticity. They help to sort of soften a rigid ego to allow it to be more adaptable, and fluid, and all those sorts of things. At the same time, success requires willful participation. That’s something that I love to emphasize. You have to be wanting this, you have to be willfully participating, you have to show up every day. What that means is, with your intention to be intentional about, “Okay, I’m going to start microdosing.”

There may be one habit, where—if there was one fundamental thing that you could change in your life, 60 days from now, and microdosing could help you to do that. What would that be? Would it be a meditation practice? Would it be a yoga practice? Would it be cutting out processed food? Would it be minimizing alcohol? Would it be letting go of toxic relationships? In that microdosing protocol, having a very clear intention, and I say, focus on one thing. Because if we start to get into, well, there’s these 20 things. Then oftentimes, nothing actually happened. Focus on that one thing, allow microdosing to be sort of this accelerant as you’re moving into that aspect of growth and change. Then just listen, and be reflective, and be aware. If there’s one thing that you get out of this as sort of a general meta-skill, it’s how can microdosing help you to cultivate greater awareness about who you are, about what’s your shadow, about what are the things that drive you, about what are your dreams, and desires, and passions. I think that capacity for microdosing, and higher doses as well to expand awareness is so key and so helpful.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah, man. That’s so powerful. I think, for me, when someone told me like, “Look, it’ll just help ignite your flow state, and you’ll just be able to go deeper, and richer.” That for me has always been like, as an artist, as a creative, I’m always seeking that inner truth in myself, in like how can I tap into that further. Whether it’s sitting in front of the canvas, or whether I’m writing my new book, or whatever it is. I want to be able to go and enrich myself with that experience. I call it just self-indulgent. Because I feel like, whatever it is coming out of me, is like you said earlier, it’s within you already. But can something help me go a little deeper, can something help me just open up that window a little bit more, so more of that breeze can come through?

I think, you really touched on all these bases so well. I think it’s a beautiful concept, and I think, it’s obviously in a lot of ways what you do and work on. I mean, we talked about this event in Costa Rica. Can you tell me a little bit about the work that you do now with people in groups to help facilitate these experiences?

Fighting the Stigma through Connection and Community

Photo by Pixabay from Pexels:

Paul Austin: I would love that. I talked earlier about the skill of psychedelics. If there are any coaches, practitioners, guides, therapists who are listening to this podcast, and maybe want to –what I would call like cultivate or deepen that skill of psychedelic. That’s really the focus of the training program that we have. I was on a retreat in Costa Rica, more I would call it even an intensive than a retreat, six days. We do a hiker dose, which is a microdose with a hike. We do a Temazcal sweat lodge, we do a high-dose psilocybin ceremony in a maloca. We also have like a day of hot springs for integration. That’s part of a six-month program, which has a theory section of learning the skill of psychedelics, the intensive, which is starting to actually deepen that work ourselves and the practicum, which is how do we actually go and apply that within a coaching practice.

A lot of the hands-on work that I’m doing now is specific to training, let’s say, the guides, and the coaches, and the practitioners of tomorrow in Third Wave’s specific methodology. This maps also on to what we talked about earlier, in terms of microdosing in leadership, performance, wellness, growth. A lot of the emphasis of broader psychedelic space is on the therapeutic, medical, and clinical applications of psychedelics to treat depression, and addiction, and PTSD, and anxiety. It’s astounding how efficacious these high doses are to treat those. What I’m about to say is not to undercut that, or it’s not to say that’s not important work, because it is incredibly important work. However, what I believe to be true is that the model of pathology, the model of labeling, the model of keeping people stuck within that structure of fixing goes back to what you were saying earlier, right? Then we kind of have the story that’s going on, “Oh, I’m depressed. Since I’m depressed, I’m broken. Since I’m broken, I’m not worthy. Since I’m not worthy—” it sort of becomes this really disgusting cycle.

The frame that we said instead is, what if we could let go of all of that, and what if we looked at psychedelics, yes, to bring up shadow material that needs to be integrated and to allow for repressed emotion to come to the surface, and all of that. But more so, what if psychedelics could help us with true authenticity, true expression? They can help us with new innovative ideas. They could help us with being more empathic and better listeners. They can help us to lead from a place of deep knowing and embodiment. They can help us to improve and elicit more creativity in our everyday lives. This training program that we’ve developed, is really to help executive coaches, wellness coaches, peak performance coaches, life coaches, spiritual coaches, even some clinical therapists, and psychologists, and counselors, and medical doctors, help them really master that skill of psychedelics. As they’re actually going in and doing client work, or working within a container, or guiding friends, or whoever it is, they feel like they can confidently enter this space, and support people as they navigate through it. Because psychedelics are still quite illegal, because there’s still a lot of stigma that exists around psychedelics, it really is a wild west out there.

When I’ve studied sort of what are we going to need to do this time that we didn’t do in the ’50s and ’60s? What needs to change compared to what has happened before? I think the number one thing is education. Once people are educated, how can they find providers, clinics, retreats, therapists, coaches that they can work with, that they can trust, that can guide them through what could be a very difficult but eventually transformative experience. Then community, to me, healing always happens in community. That’s really, I would say, when I look at the larger mission vision of this third wave of psychedelics, the role that microdosing plays, the role that higher dosing plays, the role that even meditation, and breath work, and yoga plays. It’s really helping as many individuals come into their full power as possible. 

Then to understand the potency of one plus one equals three, that yes, psychedelics can help open up my own capacities. But when I connect with a tribe, or a community, or a group of mission-aligned people, what we can all do together is so, so massive. I think that’s particularly important, right now, because as we all know, we’re facing a meta crisis, an existential crisis, a mental health crisis, a climate crisis. There’s a ton of crises that we’re currently facing. What is not going to work is just trying to fix that system. Instead, what we need to do is we need to dream up what is that new paradigm that’s rooted in what I call the truth of interconnectedness, and how can we as a culture of society actually weave in this sense of intervene into business, politics, education, economics, health care. I mean, you name it, all aspects of society. 

I feel like with the training programs that we’re doing now, with Third Wave as an educational platform, and of course, with all these other companies and nonprofits that are popping up in the psychedelic space. As I mentioned before, it really gives me a lot of hope for what it is that’s emerging, because I think psychedelics—well, I don’t think they’re going to heal the world or fix everything. I certainly think if used within the appropriate container, they could be incredibly transformative for potentially millions. If not, tens of millions. If not, hundreds of millions of people.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah, man. Wow, that’s so powerful. Love how your dream encompasses all of us, in thinking about like, okay. Here are the things that we are facing, here’s something that can help us, one, see that differently and look into the future, and see how we can bring—like you said earlier, which is what I love, what’s already inside of us out and creating space for that. Your coaching programs, your developmental work is so needed right now. Thank you for the time, energy, resources. At one point, you were listening to a podcast, hearing about this, and here you are, years later, you’ve mastered this in a way, and continue to learn, and educate others on this podcast, sharing with others, what this work could be like, and what your work has done. 

I’m moved, I am grateful that I had the honor of speaking with you today and learn so much from you today, Paul. Thank you. Truly, like congratulations on—first of all, writing a book is not easy. I’m sure you know. Congratulations on that seriously. I think it’s profound. It’s one of those layers that are added to the work that you’re doing, which I know will get out there even further. For all the people out there, working away, thinking about this microdosing sort of a new topic in our world, what’s one thing you wish people could take away from the book? 

Paul Austin: It’s great question.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: It’s a tough one.

Paul Austin: Right, because there’s so many.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: There are so many things.

Paul Austin: If I can nail this or narrow this down to one thing, it’s that every person who’s listening to this, and every person who’s who ends up reading the book, or ends up microdosing themselves, they have full capability to take ownership over their existence in their life. And that microdosing can be a phenomenal tool to help them come into their fullest power. I think that’s just the one thing—like there’s all these tactical sorts of protocols. There are all these considerations. But I think if there’s one thing to take away, it’s the remembrance that we are way more capable than we’ve been conditioned to believe. That part of the power of microdosing is allowing us to remember that, and to really fully step into that, because I don’t think there’s anything more that we want to give as an individual than our greatest gifts. We want to be fully expressed in that. I think what microdosing can do is it really can help with opening up that awareness and that allowance of that true gift. So yeah, just sovereignty, agency, power that it’s all inside of you, and that microdosing is a phenomenal tool to remember that, and to open up that capacity.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah. Man, that’s so powerful. I love that you wrapped it up with that because it reminds me of something I was taught at a very young age. In Arabic, the word human is in sun, which means, human, it’s also the root of forgetfulness. The two words are connected. Meaning, it goes deeper into faith and all these things. But the idea is that then everything around you is a reminder of yourself, your greatness, and how we’re all connected. So that the human is a forgetful being. One, we need to be able to forget. We need to be able to forget pain, and this, and that. It’s also great to have a reminder, a re-signaling, reigniting. I think I love that our conversation is kind of wrapping with this because I feel in a lot of ways, having microdose, I feel like in a lot of ways I’m remembering. I think that’s the gate you’re trying to open throughout this conversation, is that just remember your own greatness. Everything is always in there and always has been. Perhaps, this is the key, a tool, an aspect of ways to tap back into yourself. I don’t know, but I can’t wait to go in and devour your book, and just further connect with you, and learn more because this is such meaningful and impactful work that I think our world needs. So thank you, Paul. I learned so much today. Seriously.

Paul Austin: Thank you. This is super fun. Just to land that fully. Rumi, who is a well-known Sufi mystic, the thing that he always taught was basically remembering our divinity. Whether it’s through psychedelics, or the whirling dervishes, or through breathwork, or through even microdosing. Remembering that, that we have that spark of divinity within us, that’s so healing, and so empowering for each and every person who is allowed to step into that, and [inaudible 0:35:23.7.]

Hussein Al-Baiaty: I love that so much. Paul, it’s been an honor, man. Mastering Microdosing. Besides checking out the book, where can people find you?

Paul Austin: Social, I’m on Instagram and Twitter @paulaustin3w. I post occasionally, but not too much. Then the Third Wave, we have a newsletter, We also have a podcast called The Psychedelic Podcast, brought to you by Third Wave. Then, my personal website, These are all great places to connect with the more. If people are listening to this, and want to reach out, and have questions, I’m here to support and help anywhere I can.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Thank you so much for your time today. Again, I’m so honored to have met you, and I know this won’t be our last time chatting. Thanks again, Paul, for coming on the show. 

Paul Austin: Thanks, Hussein.