My next guest reveals that the greatest threat large corporations face is their inability to innovate. The majority of contemporary innovation is created by startups while large corporations lag behind. 

Welcome back to the Author Hour Podcast. I’m your host, Hussein Al-Baiaty, and my next guest, Mike Stemple, is here to talk with us about his newest book, Innovating Innovation. Let’s get into it.

Hello everyone, welcome back to the show. I’m Hussein Al-Baiaty with my good friend Mike, and we were just talking about his new book, Innovating Innovation. I’m super excited to have Mike on the show today because you know, we were just talking about this, every time I hear the word innovation or innovate something connects it to optimism, which again kind of enlightens my hope.

So I’m really excited about this, thank you for your time today Mike, I really appreciate you coming on the show.

Mike Stemple: Thanks for having me, this is a lot of fun.

Rising through Adversity

Hussein Al-Baiaty: So you’ve been talking about doing this book for a while, and a lot of your colleagues and the people around you have been haggling you. So you know, congratulations. It’s here, it’s out, it’s in the world, it’s going to do the impact. But before we get into the book, I really want to talk about you know, I want to give our audience sort of a background, something to connect you with, some contextualization of where you grew up and how you got to this idea of you know, working around innovation and helping startups.

Mike Stemple: Yeah, I’ll give you the quick version. I always talk about straight out of high school, I was military. I joined the Army, a big decision at that time.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Well, thank you for your service.

Mike Stemple: I appreciate that. And it was one of the better decisions I made. My teachers have always told me I’ve been bright, so it was quite a shock for someone like me to enlist in the military. I was not the typical recruit, but it got me out of Colorado where I grew up and I got to see the world. I became a combat medic for two years, and then they asked me to leave and gave me the option to pay all my undergraduate, and hopefully you get me into med school and come back as an Army surgeon and so that was an interesting program to go through. 

So after two years, I came back to civilian life, went through college in Colorado and then my senior year of college, I was in a car accident and hit my head on the doorframe of the car, damaged my brain and lost my military and my medical career in a blink of an eye.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Unbelievable, wow.

Mike Stemple: The next big chapter of my life happened then. I damaged my brain, but the damaged area was the art center of the brain. So it was the right temporal region and I unlocked an ability that was incredible. I suddenly, became a really good artist. So six months after I had my car accident, I painted a large 40-foot by 80-foot mural on the busiest highway in Colorado, featuring John Elway, the Broncos, Dikembe Mutombo of the Nuggets, and Andres Galarraga of the Rockies and became a well-known and respected and famous sports artist.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: That’s amazing, tell me more. It’s interesting, right? Because it’s sad how this unlocking happened, but something triggered, something unlocked. I want to know more about that. Share with us a little bit more about this unlocking and what it kind of led to as far as sports artistry because I grew up an artist. I learned a lot of everything I know from my father. I don’t think I knocked my head at any point so this is really interesting to me.

Mike Stemple: Yeah, I mean, before that happened, I was very typical at the time, I thought, left brained. Very analytical, you know my degree is in science. My whole life was built around science and suddenly, I started feeling all of this emotion. So after my head injury, the creative process is an emotional process, it’s not a logic process. So creating things and building things, envisioning things, seeing the future and then trying to mold the current reality to mirror that future you have in your brain, I’m with the whole process. 

It was an amazing, I almost want to say, divine process because I look back on that and who in their right mind would six months in the midst of physical therapy and everything else have the audacity to think that they could step up on the largest stage that you could have in Denver, Colorado with a million people driving by that mural every week?

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Right, I’m looking at it right now.

Mike Stemple: And take the biggest risk of my life. Oh, cool.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah, it’s amazing.

Mike Stemple: Yeah, and to step into that, people thought I had a plan, and I didn’t. I had a vision and that was it, and I learned a lot in my art career, and I did my art career for three active years. I created a massive amount of artwork in three years. 

When I do other murals, I did a lot of sports pieces for pro athletes, and one day, my brain had healed enough and the drive to create art diminished and the science side of my brain woke up, and it just happened to be in the late 90s. My younger brother had just finished his computer science degree, he told me about this thing called the Internet, and it was the perfect marriage of technology and art. 

So I taught myself to code, and I got my first company funded in 2000 and I’ve done 20 of them back-to-back-to-back over the years. Most failed, my first three failed. So I wouldn’t get success until the fourth try, but the fourth try is the company that most people know me for was SkinNit, stickers for cellphones and laptops, I started out at the basement of my house, convinced both my brothers to join me and the three of us went out and built a juggernaut that’s still in business to this day. 

It’s exchanged hands multiple times, different owners but still in business to this day, and it is something I‘m really proud of. I left that after we sold it and created another company called Original Wraps with my older brother, who then took over and negotiated the sale of our business for 3M. So that was cool, and then around that time, I had a crazy idea to take some time off and try to become a sponsored athlete.

So I had no ability or talent, other than the ability to run. The military taught me to do that effectively, and so I Googled the hardest foot race on the planet and found this race called the Atacama Crossing in Northern Chile across the Atacama Desert, a 156 miles, self-supported. No one will help you. You have to carry everything in a pack, you ask for a bandage, you’re out, and so it was the ultimate startup to build and I was the startup. 

And building out your race pack and trying to figure out how many calories you need to go 156 miles across the desert and how much clothing and how much gear and everything this weight to effort ratio. So everything has to be super light and it was just fascinating, preparing for that race was just fascinating.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: How long did it take you to prepare for that race?

Mike Stemple: Another six months. It’s always six months with me. And the big motivator at the time to go and want to do that race was I got really sick and started to shake, twitches all over my body, spent a lot of money trying to figure out what’s wrong with me. Doctors then gave me a diagnosis of something I didn’t want to hear and didn’t want to believe in and they told me that if I wanted to do anything active, do it now because my future is going to be bleak and so I Googled the next day and there’s kind of an interesting story. 

The next day, after hearing that from my doctor, the very first blog post I saw, I have a news feed that gives me stories every day, was a review of the Alchemist, Paolo Coelho, and quote in that book is, “What would you do with your life if you were not afraid?” That hit me hard. On that day especially, that hit me hard because I was filled with fear. Professional fear, personal fear, you know, between companies. What I was going to do for the rest of my life and what value could I create, and would I even have a body or a mind to accomplish this?

That’s what gave me the where with all to go do something extraordinary and so I had six months, I actually screwed up. I entered the race, and it said it was running in the Fall of 2009, 2008. I didn’t understand that that’s in the southern hemisphere and their fall is our spring. This is October so I had from October until March to train for this race and go from sedentary and sick to endurance athlete. 

So I broke it down and did it just like every startup I’d ever built. A massive amount of research, a massive amount of testing, experimenting on myself, just figuring out how I could do this and somehow, I pulled it together and was, I thought, healthy enough to be able to go do the hardest foot race on the planet. Lo and behold, I wasn’t. Not even remotely close to being qualified or have the ability to do something as audacious as that.

On the flight down, tragedy struck. I was taking my race pack out of the overhead and someone hit me from behind and I fell into the seats but my hand was stuck in the straps and my race pack flipped over backwards behind my back and rotated my arm and popped one of the tendons that hold your clavicle to your scapula.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: On my, this is on flight?

Mike Stemple: Yeah, on the flight down, right when I landed in Chile. I felt it, and being a combat medic, you kind of learn when things break. Definitely, I was educated enough to know that something was broken. I babied it that night and got ready to go run the next morning, start the race and I put my race pack on for the first time. It pressed down on my shoulder blade and separated it and immense pain.

I went to talk to a medical team, they have a lot of ER doctors that follow you should try to do something stupid like running across the desert. He checked out my shoulder and he’s like, “Yeah, you’re done, there’s no way you can do this,” and I started bawling my eyes out and telling them, “But I’m not afraid, I have to do this, my future doesn’t look good, and I have to do something incredible, I have to do this for me.”

And he took massive pity on me and he says, “I read your race profile.” He goes, “You’re the startup guy, aren’t you?” I go, “Yeah,” he goes, “You’re pretty good with math, aren’t you?” I go, “Yeah.” He goes, “How many feet are in a mile?” I go, “280.” And he’s like, “All right, how many miles is this race?” I go, “156.” He goes, “And how long is your stride?” And I go, “Three feet approximately.” And he said, “All right, do the math,” and I knew what he was getting at and I was like, “Yeah, that’s over a quarter million.” 

He goes, “Yeah. For the next seven days, you’re going to separate your shoulder a quarter million times.” Just the weight of that hits, right? He’s like, “And you can’t have any Tylenol or Advil in your pack, I can’t give you any because one, when you’re dehydrated, it will damage your kidneys, you don’t want to damage your liver. So you’re going to do what you want to do for the next seven days with long-term effects and you’re going to be in a lot of pain.”

So he was like trying to talk me out of it, but I decided I would try one day, and so I did and it sucked and it was hard. It was immensely difficult and at the end of that day, I was like, “All right, I’m done.” I camped out in the stars, it was gorgeous. I was like, “There’s no way I want to go run 30 miles tomorrow,” because you’re not allowed to run at night and I woke up the next morning and it sucked and it hurt but had enough courage to start again and I did that seven days in a row and ended up finishing the race. 

I wasn’t competitive at all, but it was running the race competing against myself, and I won that race and yeah, so that was a pivotal moment in my career, in my life. Coming back from that, I came back definitely changed. Something died in the desert and something new emerged. So that was the second big book end, you know, a car accident and then almost dying and running the hardest footrace on the planet.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Yeah. I mean, it’s the hardest for a reason.

Mike Stemple: Yeah, and by the way, I’m not sick. I always want people to know that. Come to find out, what the doctors thought I had, I didn’t. And it was a lot of neurological issues caused by my head injury that I’ll always have and will never go away, but it’s never going to get worse than it is at that time. So that was comforting. I didn’t figure that out for, you know, seven or eight years later but everything’s fine. So I’m healthy.

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Thank God for that, but it sounds like you know, whatever you needed in that moment in time to just, not necessarily heal yourself, maybe not even redefine yourself, but like you said, I think you said it beautifully; it’s like something else was born and something else died and I came back different. So tell me about that transformation? 

I mean, here you are, you’re running through the desert, you’re putting your body through immense amount of pain and struggle and suffering and all these things, but it sounds like, you’re shedding an older version of you and giving birth to a new version of you and as you came back, what was that transformation? How did you see the world differently, how did you see yourself differently?

The Meaning of Innovation

Mike Stemple: Good questions. I innovated. I innovated myself. You know, we spend so much time talking about innovation as an external activity that we do on something. I think self-help or internal psychology, there’s a lot of terms you can use. I always think of it as I’m innovating on me. I’m the machine, and I’m making it better. I’m optimizing it. I’m getting rid of processes that are no longer working, are outdated or for a time and a place that I’m no longer in and inventing new things and inventing being creative with me and my psychology and my physical abilities. 

Luckily, you know, between my art career and my tech career, my startup career, it was just natural for me to see myself as the product and to innovate on myself. You know, part of my degree is in psychology but it wasn’t some like, big “aha moment”. I saw what I had innovated to be able to go do the hardest foot race on the planet and then I saw what it took to actually do that. 

So I invented a product and released it to the market. The market was immensely brutal and so, during that race, I innovated like crazy. I redid my pack straps so as not to put so much pressure on my shoulder. I was doing all these things during the race just to survive and get through to the finish line and that’s business. I mean, effective innovators do this all the time in business.

And so when I got to the end of that race, I had realized in multiple times in my life, I have innovated myself into success because when I came back from the Atacama, I had met with and talked to all the companies of products that I was using in the race. I reached out to their R&D teams, big companies, whether it was the gels I was eating or the shoes I was wearing or any of the recovery stuff I was consuming. 

I had reached out to every single brand that was in my race pack to ask, “Will this product hold up doing what I’m attempting to do?” You don’t want to go out in the middle of the desert, you don’t want to climb Everest, you don’t want to sail across the ocean with gear that’s not built for that type of environment. In that process and talking to all of these amazing companies and the R&D teams, I found it very, very interesting that they build for the average consumer but the R&D people aspire to innovate for the crazy ones like me. And I learned a lot talking to them. 

So when I came back and shared all the photos and everything that happened in the Atacama with my sponsors, I started to understand that there was this massive gap between the way I see the world as a startup founder, as a self-innovator, and the way corporate companies are allowed to let their people innovate. There’s just this huge, huge gap. 

So if you’ve ever done corporate innovation or if you’ve ever done startup innovation, there’s this massive difference between the two, and I became obsessed with that. I became obsessed with one simple question: why can’t a corporate innovation person, it doesn’t matter what your title is, but as someone who wants to invent the new for a big company, why can they fail inside the business to get any traction, quit, go and found a startup and be wildly successful doing the exact same thing they had asked the big company to do and this happens again. I just heard another story from a friend of mine in the beverage space. Again and again and again this happens, and so I thought, what is this magic thing that corporates don’t have that maybe I could teach them?

What is it about the environment the startups have that allows them so effortlessly to innovate and what’s going on in corporate that makes it so much more difficult? I started thinking about that on the flight back with my gear because a lot of my gear failed.

Not because they were bad brands by the way, it was just because I was – it’s funny, my running shoes, my Brooks, race shoes, the Atacama is a salt desert. A lot of people don’t know that, so it used to be the ocean floor when the Andes were formed that pushed up the ocean to about a mile high, so it was similar to the elevation that I grew up in Colorado. All the water evaporates off, it is the driest place on earth, 400 times drier than anywhere else. 

It is so dry that when you blink, the water instantly evaporates off your eyes, constantly, it’s just insane. And it’s salt, and so when you start running across salt, it powders and gets all over you. Every crease and crevice of your body starts getting salt crystals rubbing back and forth, which is a lot of fun but more importantly, your shoes. All of the stitching in your shoes is constantly having these little crystals of salt rub against everything. 

So by the end of the race, I had duct taped my shoes back together. All the stitching was just eaten away, and I had these photos of what it was like out there and it is just an alien, alien place. If you ever want to go on an amazing trip and see something that is absolutely beautiful, go to the Atacama, and for no other reason that there is no moisture in the air so when the stars come out, they come out. It is an amazingly beautiful place. 

Hussein Al-Baiaty: That sounds remarkable, man. And so I think like you said, you know, this race really started defining not only how you see yourself but how you see the world around you, how you see startups and corporations. The ideology behind innovation really, I feel like you’ve been doing it, but I think at this point, this was a realignment of sort of who you are and where you work from and how you operate, and I think that’s really beautiful. 

Can you share with our audience just to define it for us from your perspective what innovation means to you? 

Mike Stemple: That’s an interesting question because when a client, a large corporation brings me in, the first exercise I do with the whole team is, “Define innovation for me,” and I make everyone write it down on a posted note and sign it, and then I collect it and with a definition and I started reading it off to everybody and depending on the department you are in inside of a large corporation, innovation means something different, and so that’s a big problem. 

This is why innovation is such a wishy-washy term whenever I say in a press release for a big company, and I was just reading about a previous client, [inaudible 0:20:58.3] diverging, divesting from their cannabis business. They talked about how they’re refocusing on different innovations, and I thought that was interesting because the CEO Pete, said it in a different way than other people that I talk to. 

So it is kind of a term that is buzz-worthy so marketers use it a certain way, HR people use it a certain way, all these different people have their own personalized definition so that is one of the very first things I do is get people to have a universal definition of innovation so we can communicate effectively about what it is. So the natural thing that happens is people are like, “What’s your definition, Mike?” and I have a very precise definition that I have found covers both the startup and the corporate world across all people that I’ve ever worked with that want to use the term innovation, and it’s the human response to evolution. 

So innovation is what we uniquely as humans on this planet do to respond to the changes that are happening. Animals don’t innovate. There’s not one animal that can innovate. They don’t have the capacity to innovate. They don’t have the brain structure to innovate. They might adapt but they’re not innovating, they are not inventing new technologies and using creativity to solve problems. 

So I think that belief system that I have, the innovation is a human response to evolutions that are happening, and I am not talking evolution like Darwin. I am talking evolutions in that how the market is constantly changing. Like I ask companies, “Why do you want to innovate?” They’re like, “To stay relevant.” I was like, “Okay, change. You need to respond to change.” “Why are you innovating this new product?” “To make money.” “Can’t you make money with the old product?” “No, no one is buying it anymore.” So something changed.

Why do we always talk about Gen Z, Millennials, Xers, and Boomers? Because each one of those groups forces products and companies to have to change. Gen Z is radically different than an Xer like me. They think about products in a different way. They think about their emotional attachment to brands. 

They do deep brands into brands to understand what they stand for, what they value and so this is a constantly changing, evolving world that we live in and when we respond to that with our creativity, we are responding, innovating to that change. 

Hussein Al-Baiaty: I think that’s so powerful because I think, obviously I have never thought about it in that way. Like I said earlier, when I think innovation I just think optimism. I think something is moving towards improvement, right? But it’s not always necessary, but I do think it is necessary in certain parts of who we are, our lives, and in the external world and you point something out that’s really interesting. 

You talk about how startups and corporations, you know, when I think startups I think they’re working on something new or innovating on something that already exists or probably bridging two things together to make something new, but then there is something unique about startups in that corporations, you know, from my understanding and just looking at the culture in our world, you see a lot of startups get bought up sometimes by huge tech companies or whatever it may be, right? 

That’s really interesting because then you wonder like, “Well, why isn’t that huge corporate company that was once also a startup innovating like a startup? Why don’t they have that team?” and I am assuming that they do, however, is it the idea that like, “Okay. Well, at some point this company could grow and become a competitor. I’d rather take on that innovation and grow it in our own respective way,” like how do you perceive that? Maybe I am looking at it obviously from just a different lens, but how do you see it in your lens and any ideas of innovation? 

Mike Stemple: Well, I am going to correct one thing you said, and it was your assumption. No, I mean it is the average assumption, it’s what everyone assumes; that corporates actually have innovators. They don’t. They just don’t. I do an exercise where I go through the headcount of a multinational and I will say, “Okay, how many paid employees do you have working on addressing the changes in the marketplace?” 

So how many people are responding to evolution, right? Not a new flavor of Doritos, but I am taking innovative changes of people’s diets like bringing in a new product to the market. How many people are truly creating for the next evolutions that we’re going through? They give me a number or we negotiate a number because it is a negotiation. They actually think they have more true innovators and they really do.

They just have a lot of sustaining, people are just sustaining their product, and they think they are innovating. They’re not. They are just sustaining their product. Adding a new feature to something doesn’t always make it innovative. So like Twitter adding the ability to edit tweets, is that innovative or is that just kind of an enhancement to the product? We could debate that but it’s debatable, right? 

So I debate this and what I find is when they come up with their number, I have to break a big, big bubble for them, which is they have and just four or five startups that exist, that are competing against a mega corp, they have just in those four or five startups, maybe even three, there are more pure innovators in just three startups competing against a big multinational as far as the number of headcount of innovators. 

You take that by multinationals competing globally and they might have a staff of 20,000 people, and then you look at the number of startups in probably 500 to a thousand maybe three thousand startups globally, and then you times the number of people who are focused 100% on innovating and companies, large multinationals are just outgunned. I was having a conversation earlier today with somebody who is very well-known in the entrepreneurial space about all these tech people getting laid off. 

Ten thousand in Amazon, all the Twitter people that are leaving, I mean, all these big, big companies are shedding very talented, very smart people, but there is a large number of those people who will not go back into another large company. They are getting great severances that they will use to found their own company, be their own boss and live that dream because it has never been easier to be an entrepreneur, and they are going to compete against Twitter. 

They’re going to compete against SalesForce, they’re going to compete. The turn of employees back into the marketplace with all the tools that have democratized entrepreneurs, I mean, it is just so easy to innovate now. It creates a massive number of targeted successful businesses, and I love that because these big companies use an M&A strategy that you alluded to, to innovate. 

That is their, most big companies, their only strategy for innovation is to acquire success in the marketplace, and that is a big red flag. I think that is a huge red flag. I think of a company, if I was a stock analyst, I would actually say that one of the biggest red flags I have for a stock that I would probably end up shorting is when they are owning innovative press releases, the only innovative story they’re telling is the acquisition of startups. 

That they can’t invent internally their own thing, they can’t respond to change internally. They can’t respond to evolution internally. We hear this term disruption a lot, things are being disrupted. Disruption sends out a lot of warning signals, so for me disruption is when you ignore the evolutions long enough, you will be disruptive, you just will. So if you do not respond to the changes that are happening in your marketplace at a certain cadence that have gotten much, much faster, and you let that build up overtime and ignore it, you will be disruptive. 

Something will come into your world and disrupt you. So that is what disruption is, the ignoring of evolution for long enough and, you know, 10 years ago I had this thought that what’s destroying corporate innovation is their inability to move at the pace of startups or the psychology of startups and get out of the process, I call it the operator mindset. Instead of operating a machine how are we going to invent the next machine that will bring in people who are trained to operate? 

One of the big takeaways that I share with people is when I go into a client as an entrepreneur-in-residence and my job as an entrepreneur-in-residence is to be the voice of the startup community within the business. So anything that’s entrepreneurial, I help them understand it. So when they are talking about new innovations, I tell them about all the startups that are competing against them and what they are going to do to make their life complicated. 

When the CEO is talking about doing something, I bring an entrepreneurial perspective into it. “Have you thought of it this way, from the creator community and what we will think about this?” My job, that’s what I do day in and day out. It’s been fun for me to help corporates better understand how to work with startups and not see them as this insignificant fly that’s annoying them. Most companies who have had that mindset for the last decade suddenly wake up and have lost massive market share to that little startup that now is a large company competing against them. I always find that very, very interesting.

Or they grow to the point where they have to acquire that business because it is eating away at their revenue significantly and then they screw that up. So that’s the other piece of it is big corporate, there is a reason why they can’t innovate. They acquire a new, fast growing startup and then instantly infect that startup with all the processes that they have and destroy the entrepreneurial spirit within it for – and so the very thing they are acquiring for, they infect it with the thing that is making them not able to compete, which is fascinating and I see that at scale. 

Hussein Al-Baiaty: That is really huge. So Mike, I mean, you obviously have defined this ideology so well that you go in and help these big corporations and you know, as you innovate yourself, you help others innovate and think about things differently and that’s remarkable but like what would you say, if there was one thing, you know, when somebody gets their hands on your book here in the next few days, what’s one thing you hope they can take away from that from the overall message of your book? 

Mike Stemple: It is the advice I give people personally, which is about their lives. I am not a remarkable individual. I’m just not. I am not a talented athlete, I am not a talented innovator. I wasn’t a super talented artist. The thing that made me different was the quality I look for in most people, which is fierceness, this idea of being fierce. And I think a lot of people struggle with that. Fierceness, the definition is there’s a powerful and heartfelt intensity. 

So a lot of people don’t want to have a powerful and heartfelt intensity about them, especially in corporate, but fierceness is the one quality I look for when I have to pick a team. So when a big corporate client asks me to go through and assemble what I call a SWAT team, special weapons and tactics team for innovation to respond to fast innovation, to do disruptive things, to be a pain in the ass of their largest competitor, I look for fierceness. 

I look for people who are willing to be emotional because so much of the innovation process is creative and emotion based. There are not a lot of facts in innovation, and big companies love their facts because it justifies the decisions they make. They love third-party research, and they come in as if it exists in third-party research, they probably innovated founders and startup guys like me to put it in the research. 

So you are actually getting old data that is no longer relevant for the evolution that is currently happening. You are at the tail end of the evolution, not the front end of the evolution, and I think fierceness just gives you this power. It gives you this personal power. I always use this, the story about my wife. I fell in love with my wife because she was fierce, not because she was meek. I fell in love with her because she fiercely loves the world. 

She surfs every day, we live here in Ocean Side, California now, and she surfs every day and she’s fierce about it. She is fierce in her love for me, she is fierce about how she approaches life. I couldn’t imagine being in a relationship with someone that was constantly meek, and I think that’s the one takeaway that I hope people when they read the book, they understand that being fierce is the easiest upgrade you have professionally. 

It is hard inside of a company to be fierce because they – I always call it the Spock versus Kirk syndrome. They’d much rather hire and have you be Spock’s, a company full of Spock’s, logical operators, MBAs who are focused 100% on the facts, than the Kirk from Star Trek, who are the emotional renegades that are trying to respond to disruptions that are happening around them and so be a lot more Kirk in life, you will live a much more fulfilled life if you do. 

Hussein Al-Baiaty: I love that. Be more Kirk. Mike, thank you so much for sharing your stories and your experiences with us today. The book is called, Innovating Innovation: Why Corporate Innovation Struggles in the Age of the Entrepreneur. Besides checking out the book, where can people find you? 

Mike Stemple: They can read about my company at Inspirer, so with an R, so someone who inspires,, and I am most active usually on LinkedIn, starting to tweet a little bit more. That’s hit or miss, you will find most of me and interact with me the best on LinkedIn. 

Hussein Al-Baiaty: Sounds great. Well Mike, thank you so much today for your time. I am truly inspired and grateful, and your story with the race will sit with me definitely through the weekend as I brew on that. So again, I appreciate you sharing all that good stuff with us today. Congratulations again on your book. Yeah man, have a wonderful rest of your day. 

Mike Stemple: I appreciate it. Thank you.